It's really nice to see people saying positive things about Nottingham but since everyone started getting poor it hasn't been the same. It's all big-and-bland put on at one of the Rockcity venues or middle-of-the-road put on at the few remaining independent venues. There *are* interesting people putting on interesting bands, I just don't know where they are. I see plenty of the same people at gigs here as I've done at Supersonic and Damnation in Leeds. They are small in number but there are people who are willing to travel cross-county for the right gig.

I've been to Supersonic, Lighning Bolt and Sunn o))) + Om last year. I had never really been to Birmingham before to coming to Supersonic so I wasn't really sure what to expect to be honest. Myself and a couple of friends drove down to see Lightning Bolt and it was relatively easy to get to and we managed to park just up the road. When we came to see Sunn we got the train a room at the Britannia, and a taxi to the venue. Wouldn't normally as it was well expensive but it was Sunn + Om! It was right in the middle of know where and even the taxi driver wasn't sure where he was going. We had to walk back (couldn't find a taxi until we were almost back) and the city centre was absolutely dead. Maybe all your night life is on the outskirts of the city centre proper but you wouldn't see Nottingham that quiet even on a sunday night

You guys seem to have a massive city but the public transport of somewhere like Nottingham. Not everyone has a car/can drive/wants to stick to cola or water, or can afford a massive taxi fare.

General apathy is a big problem and if anyone knows who to combat it I'd like to know. When I was younger growing up in Gloucester you'd go to every(other) gig you could because there was nothing else and the one or 2 venues that put on gigs not aimed at our parents got a good turn out. Nottingham has (or had) something going on all the time and you don't feel the need to make the effort - if you miss an event something like it will be along again in a few weeks. I guess being spoilt for choice can be a bad thing sometimes.

I'd like to re-iterate the issues regarding public transport links in and around Birmingham. We moved out from Kings Heath to Kidderminster a few years back and only manage to get out to gigs in Brum on very odd occasions as the last train from Moor St. is 10.56pm during the week (10.51pm at weekends). Going to gigs invariably means a very late drive home or a night in a travelodge.

There also doesn't seem to be as much of a local scene centred around strong "local" bands as there was a few years back. As well as supporting out of town touring acts, bands like Deadsunrising, Solway Fifth and Mistress would put on gigs featuring other "local" bands, on a weekend, at The Flapper, The Royal George & The Jug of Ale and charge £2 or £3 to get in. I'm sure there were more weekend "alldayers" 5/6 years ago too.

Also there's no longer any brum-centric forum to discuss independent music that I'm aware of. thecommunion forum was great but nothing's filled that gap as far as I know.
http://web.archive.org/web/200...

"thecommunion forum was great"

SPEAK NOT ITS NAME.

A thought - "transport" problems aren't necessarily limited to public transport.

I myself know nothing about the wacky world of motorcar drivers, but there's a bloke I work with who lives in South Staffordshire and tends to go to gigs in East Midlands-type places mostly, only ever rarely heading into Birmingham. As a motorist, he reckons that the parking and the getting-in-and-out-of-the-city make it a nightmare. A specific example of this is that he (and another fella I work with who lives around that neck of the woods) went to the Derby gig of the Steve Earl tour a few months ago, rather than the Brum one. Apparently for them it was actually slightly quicker to get there and then more convenient when they did, despite being a lot further away.

I'm not sure quite how much value there is in me bringing this up (since it's clearly something that isn't going to be able to be changed/fixed), but it's all info I suppose.

The Bishop - Live Brum does alright for The Rainbow http://livebrum.co.uk/events/s...

PEE ESS... I feel that the reason these "microscenes" aren't really scenes per se is that they are based around genres rather than bands. If you think about the most fertile music scenes that have existed over the last, I don't know, 30 years? What fucking year are we on? 2010 shit the bed. well anyway, when I think about the scenes that excite me - the early 90s Oakland scene (sleep, asbestos death, dystopia, noothgrush? are noothgrush from oakland?), DC hardcore, fucking dixieland sludge (buzzov-en coming out on relapse! stoked) - the one thing these scenes all have in common is that they weren't dependent on acts from outside that scene coming through, then tagging their local acts under them on the bill. I know that capsule has shown absolutely stalwart support for local bands, but if capsule is interested in nurturing the local music scene then I feel that it has to have the confidence in those acts to hold a show on their own. If the only exposure a local bands receive from capsule is that gleaned from supporting a bigger act travelling through, in many cases people will only show up to see the headline act. What this means as far as attendence goes is that people won't feel the need to turn up in time for the support acts, leaving local bands playing to half empty rooms to little audience reaction. This can be crippling to a band's self confidence, and this often displays itself in the quality of a band's performance.

There are smaller promoters who do put on fantastic local gigs (RAYA!), but unfortunately they do not have the following that capsule has. Local scenes need a focal point, be it a promoter, a club, a label... 924 gilman, dischord, CBGBs, etc etc... Capsule has the prestige and the standing within the musical community of Birmingham to become that focal point. What it would be good to see from capsule would be say a monthly residency at a venue at which ONLY local bands play. This would, in my opinion, provide a coherent point about which a local scene could operate. Party atmosphere. No genre lines, no this is doom night, this is punk night, this is avant garde night... then people might start talking to each other, people might start forming bands, swapping members, starting their own nights, labels etc....

4 cents in total

x

I might add that this post was not about Capsule specifically, we do pretty well on attracting audiences but thats because we are not purely reliant on local ones. This is rather about independent cultural activity across the board within the West Midlands. Would be interesting to hear from other people working within the arts, because I'm pretty sure they too suffer from a lack of wider local engagement.
My feelings are that 1. lack of transport is a big problem and 2. lack of more mainstream communication ie with reduced coverage now from The Metro and the fact that there is not a music/culture person for the Birmingham Post, not to mention that local radio is all aimed at over 50's and is pretty conservative, fly posters are banned. So how do we communicate to a wider audience?

personally, I feel that Birmingham is too big to have a tight knit scene and too small to have worthwhile micro-scenes. When we play shows in worcester, everybody knows each other, everybody is fully amped on the music, people want to go fucking crazy every time. I can't say the same for Birmingham. Yes, we do have micro scenes, but because none of these scenes are really big enough in themselves to be coherent, the gigs suffer.

I also think that this fractiousness is damaging to people's appreciation of music, for a few reasons... first off, if there are only 15 people at a gig, and none of them really know each other, there are going to be very few people who are willing to show their appreciation, and by this I mean bang their fucking heads. Secondly, because these scenes are so small, people can rarely say they're a fan of local music, and the proportion of bands they like and records they buy from outside the scene will be higher than if there was a bigger/tighter scene. This leads people to identify themselves as fans of doom/punk/noise/whatever the fuck, rather than local music.

While I don't think there's anything wrong with liking any sort of music, or being a fan of certain genres, this mindset is damaging to what music is. Music was, up until some recent point in human history, a communal experience. It developed symbiotically with spoken language as a form of communication... and at some point, the two languages took opposite paths, spoken language allowing us to communicate concepts, music to communicate feelings... or so books (and that) tell me. I love records, I love recorded music, but it is a solitary communion between the artist and the listener if we stay at home listening to records. Music is not a compact disc, it isn't something you can write down. Written music is just an abstraction drawn from what music really is, which is something that only exists in a here and now, and which does not exist once it has finished. Music has evolved out of human consciousness to draw us together, that we might for a few fleeting moments be at one with other participants in that sound and revel in our shared humanity..

well anyway, how to resolve it? Make the bills more eclectic, number number one. Unquestionably. Birmingham has a rad rad reggae scene, reach out! How sick would it be to go watch some punk band supported by a local reggae act? And the thing with that would be that you'd bring fans from both camps to the show... I know reggae and punk is a cliche but I'm just throwing out ideas. If the problem is microscenes, capsule is in a fantastic position to reach out to other promoters, artists and draw them together. I mean, I hve my own personal preferences, but all music is music, and enthusiasm is infectious, and if one scene brings their enthusiasm to another, maybe we can catch that buzzzzzz....

second, and this is only an idea, but.. people need to stop leaving after they've seen 'their' band, ways to stop it? I don't know. Cake is a good idea, kudos. Also, raffles? People love prizes. Raffles after every show. Give away more cake. People love cake.

third, people need to become more engaged with their scene. How, I don't know. I JUST DON'T KNOWWWWW

well thats my two fucking cents aye

x

In my case it is the Public Transport issue, living just outside the Centro border, 14 miles form the city centre, the last bus out of Brum leaves at eleven, as does the last train. On sundays its even earlier.

Mostly with gigs in the city centre or in digbeth this isn't too much of a problem as the majority of gigs do end in time, but at venues in the jewelery quarter or in moesley its makes it impossible to use public transport.

There did use to be a midnight bus several years back but that was cancelled. Its kind of a shame as the last bus is generally pretty full and I'm sure a later bus would be equally profitable for the bus company.

A few thoughts on this intereting thread, the over riding one being for a city the size of Brum it seriously lacks an indepedent scene across the board, venues, bars, shops, cafes, etc etc. It is so mainstream and dominated by shopping from multi national chains, conferences and corporate entertainment - so it is not surprisng to me that there is not a thriving independent music scene. Although as some people mention, and again this might be true across all of these sectors, there is a lot of stuff going on successfully under the surface - but it is generally not breaking through into the mainstream marketing offer - and so to wider audiences who don't know about the micro scenes. Part of the thrust behind the 'Big City' approach favours mainstream activity and shuns the independent sector, the marketing people and key agencies should be held accountable for this and could act quite easily to give some 'airtime' and tangible support to our great independent stuff like Capsule, Moseley Folk, Flat Pack etc etc. Perhaps that is where the effort needs to go into lobbying, concentrating on pressurising them into recognising and supporting the independent sector and including it in marketing drives (especially with things like the City of Culture bid in the offing).

I'm not convinced that B'ham audiences have something wrong with them compared to the rest of the country, as some people here seem to suggest. That sounds like a bit of a jaded view, someone else says some things are thriving - that raises the question of whether some of this stuff is limited by minority interest - or are there audiences who would come if only they knew about it?

There does seem to be a long standing arrangement that a lot of the more interesting acts that are touring nationally have always seem to bypass B'ham, ofter favouring Wolves, so we don't seem to be on the circuit in that respect. At one stage it was thought Town Hall would return to be a great medium scale venue for bands but it went in a different direction. Theoretically B'ham should have much bigger audiences for events etc than most places, especially taking into account the surrounding areas, so we should be doing much better than we apparently are. Transport must be an issue, not sure what can be done to change that, if anything. I remember mising encores at the Odeon to get the last train back, but that was years ago, have we not moved on? Having to be in bed by 12 isn't very rock and roll, maybe we are all too old for this scene?

I like the idea of taking the gigs to the people and touring stuff out, rather than expecting them to come to it here. Well done to the people who keep plugging away, better times must come...By the way what a brilliant photo above!

For what it's worth, we put on a Commercially Inviable Records label night here in Brum in October and it was very poorly attended. On Friday last we did exactly the same thing in Bristol and got 3 times the crowd. As one of the artists pointed out on the night, when you play Brum you're a local act, and when you play Bristol you're a touring act.

Fom now on I shall be instructing all Commerically Inviable acts to lie about where they come from, especially
when playing Brum, and I'll be doing this from my new HQ in Sacramento, USA, where I'm kind of a big deal, you know.

Where is Birmingham's equivalent of this?
http://pineapster.com/
I've no idea who's behind it, but apparently it's a pretty essential focus for Leicester's music scene. There are quite a few folks blogging about music in Birmingham but nowhere to bring all the disparate scenes together, and certainly no-one running any sort of gig calendar for the city. Despite numerous attempts, I've never yet managed to find any sort of listing of events for The Rainbow, for example.

I have been attending gigs and events in Birmingham for more years than I care to remember, and I have always found that for the most part, audiences in Birmingham are apathetic to say the least. Bands that would have filled venues in other cities seem to attract only small numbers to say the least, in recent years I remember seeing smog at the academy 2 with an audience of about 30! Spiritualised playing the main room at the academy where the sides and the Balcony had to be curtained off! Where the hell else would this happen, and these aren't even small bands.

I do think that sometimes the scenes are more important to people than the music, I go and travel to gigs because I love the music,and quite often its the same faces at all the gigs, which makes for a good atmosphere but what happens when this audience gets old or moves on?
Obviously the scene is most vibrant in and around Kings Heath/Moseley and the Hare and Hounds plays a large part in that, however it pisses me off that I have to travel accross town to see a band which is both costly and time consuming, it seems that unless gigs are put on, on peoples doorsteps then they wont attend!
Case in point, the Caspsule gigs before xmas at the asylum and vivid, easily accessible as its in the middle of town, yet attendance was not what it would have been, had the gigs been put on at the H&H especially Efterklang.

I do think we need to get out there and involve new audiences, we need space to advertise gigs, how are people meant to find out whats on if they are only advertised in record shops that they dont know exist, or bars and clubs that they dont drink in (yet) .
Of course alot of this is probably down to the fact that the city centre has no real creative quarter, no independant shops, cafes and few bars, where most other cities I can think of does.
Perhaps we should put more effort into expanding the minds of the academy audiences and show them that there is more to life than the Killers and muse and if they try it they might actually like it. But to attract them we need to make them aware that its accesible and there for them if they want it.

A few comments on the Drowned In Sound message boards have also raised issues like venue location / accessibility, a lack of awareness outside of the bands and promoters circles & the scene being fractured - http://drownedinsound.com/comm...

Dunc has an excellent post inspired by this.

Do your gigs outside of Birmingham and actually tour around the West Mids region instead. If people can't come to you (and I imagine the whole transport problem would probably take a while to sort out) then go to them. Do gigs in Walsall, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, Willenhall (all the W's!) and other smaller towns elsewhere; Dudley, Tipton, Bilston....and so on....even if it's in smaller, local pubs and then you've got a readymade audience already standing at the bar, or gate crash popular events already planned in these areas.

I went to see Malpas / This Sinking Ship last night at The Bulls Head, These New Puritans on Tuesday at The Hare and Hounds, Vinny and The Curse on Saturday at The Flapper. All were well attended, I would even go as far to use the word 'busy'.

A friend who promoted Friday at The Hare and Hounds and The Rainbow on Saturday tells me that they were both packed out as well.

Depends where you go and who you're going to see I suppose.

So if public transport is a factor, as many respondents have identified here, then the route to get action on this is through the regional transport authority, Centro. They subsidise elements of public transport in the West Midlands. They've tried a few times with getting night services back up and running but each time they've withdrawn the subsidy and the service has stopped. Perhaps instead they could be lobbied to extend current service provision to beyond midnight in the same way they subsidise early morning services on some routes.

Maybe a group of promoters in the city could do the kind of lobbying that other sectors do. Write an open letter to Geoff Inskip, Centro Chief Exec (geoffinskip@centro.org.uk), outlining that public transport is a key factor in supporting the vibrant nighttime economy that you play a part in. See what happens.

This discussion is interesting as its concerns are the conditions that need to be in place to persuade audience to go to venues. So if transport is one, what are the others? Students? Marketing ? (Marketing Birmingham have ALL the city's marketing cash - time to hassle them maybe). I think there's some old-school lobbying to be done.

It's thoroughly discouraging tbh. I've tried to put a few gigs on in the city and though plenty have people have said they'll come along (certainly enough to please the venue) they've just not bothered on the nights.

I recently got back in touch with someone I knew in the city 15 odd years ago, he commented that he remembered Birmingham being dismal for gig turn-outs back then as well....seems that very little has changed for the smaller underground promoters.

Sadly the lack of support for the nights I put on means that there are unlikely to be any more in the near future.

Interesting one this, we've been promoting in Brum since 1989, put on artists from over 80 different countries but we don't even merit being asked by the city council for our thoughts on the subject so that in parts gives you some of the picture. I've promoted in Brum for much longer than World Unlimited and it's hard work, I've quite often had national promoters say to me 'if you can promote in Brum you can promote anywhere' but I've also heard, more than once 'you promote in Brum ?, you must be mad' If you do work out the secret I'd love to know
thanks
graham

To echo everyone's comments about public transport, there's clearly something amiss when the last train back from Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton is somehow earlier than the last train from London Euston to Wolverhampton, especially when you consider that the London train calls at New Street on its way.

I can only echo everyone else and say that the late night public transport situation around these-a parts is a right blighter. "Finished by midnight" is still too late on many occasions/for many people, especially if you're looking at somewhere like The Hare And Hounds.

Capsule aren't nearly as blithe as they used to be about late runnings, though, give 'em that. I'd like to think that my relelntless and irritating moaning may have had a small influence on this state of affairs.

I would concur with the point about poor public transport links in and around Birmingham. If you happen to live near the cross city line then this is not too much of a problem, anywhere else and you're pretty screwed. As an illustraton, last night I went to the Victoria to see Scoth Egg support Child Abuse (stupid name). Even though I didn't know the headline band I would have liked to have checked them out but couldn't because I had to leave to get the last train. I live in Stourbridge which is only thirteen miles away from the city centre. This is a regular problem and is exacerbated by gigs happening at (admittedly very cool) venues that are no where near main transport hubs. On many occasions I have paid £30 for a taxi in order to see the headline act finish their set (e.g. Lightning Bolt at Vivid). This option is ok if you are with loads of mates (bring on Autechre and Four Tet!) but otherwise not viable.

I have been putting up with this for years but I have quite a few mates that live in my area that listen to the type of bands Capsule promote that can't be botthered with the hassle of gigs in Brum. Wolverhampton is even worse. On the way back from Rollins last week I had to endure the last bus terminating half way along its normal route.

Regarding the students, I don't know what Capsule does to engage them but it certainly does seem like the monolithic, sterile academy is running the show in our city.

Recently I have been very annoyed at the amount of bands that have played genuine independent venues in other cities only to find themselves at the academy for the Birmingham date of the tour. We simply do not have the same amount of quality independent venues as Bristol or even a smaller city like Nottingham. Real music fans do not want to be herded around like complient sheep and they certainly do not want to pay £4 whatever for some shit beer they have never heard of. I do however acknowledge that as mentioned in Capsule's 10 years programme, the choice on offer now is a hell of a lot better than it used to be!

Maybe if there was a quality and well promoted website listing all of the independent gigs in the city then this would help?

Have you spoken to people in other cities about what is working well?

the comedy scene is pretty poor compared to some places too (not mentioning the "M" word!).
Xx

The main problem is that people dont care. I live in leicester and generally go to Birmingham or Nottingham for gigs (unless it's dubstep, the only horse in town lately). The great thing for me about what Capsule does is that it brings people in from outside Birmingham to see international acts in great venues. Short of talking about demographics and all that crap, the sad truth may well be that there are not that many people in Biringham who care enough to come out to gigs that o2 have not texted them about. Spending a lot of your precious time and resources trying to convince people near you who dont care is a waste. A lot of Nottingham and Birmingham promoters put up a lot of flyers and posters around leicester, which suggests a problem across the midlands. In fact, most of the flyers around leicester are for gigs and clubs in other cities.

Losing the thread a bit here...I guess the point I'm trying to make is that creating demand for independent events is very difficult in a market increasingly dominated by multi-national monopolies (o2 and HMV), who can so easily tap their markets. Nothing beats the old fasioned flyer and poster approach though, in my opinion. You can always console yourself with the fact that, no matter how bad Birmingham may be, it's not as bad as Leicester!

Mr Bishop (Rob) perhaps you've not been to a Capsule show in quite some time as with the exception of our birthday party we have been tucked up in bed by midnight for all shows:)

I do think the problem with local transport is a real issue - which could be addressed by the council

I haven't been to very much at all in the last year or so (less than a quarter of the shows I'd have got to in the recent past). I'm pleased to hear that finishing times have become more stable. There were times when I thought I'd end up sleeping in the Custard Factory.

One thing that annoys me is when people say "venue X is too out of the way", especially with reference to Digbeth. Aside from continuing to have gigs in far out places I'm not sure there is much to be done about it.

Birmingham is full of micro-scenes. There appears to be very little audience crossover between the shows Capsule put on and the shows promoted by, say, the Moseley Folk people, or some of the folks who promote at the Rainbow etc. With the honourable exception of certain Ideal Skateboard Supply employees, who'd attend the opening of a door.
Not quite sure why this is, but it's been a problem for as long as I can remember.

I'm sure the local student populations make good use to the Academy, but there's no history of Birmingham students being particularly musically adventurous.

It's very difficult to get people from, say, Willenhall, to attend shows in Birmingham, and this may be down to the West Midlands still suffering from very poor evening public transport. Unless you live within a few minutes walk of one of the main arterial roads out of the city, it's quicker to get to Derby from Birmingham city centre than it is to get to the bus home.

Closer to home, and I know it's not very rock 'n' roll to say this, but there have been a number of Capsule shows I have not attended because I don't want to be out til 2am.